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Rough Transcription of In-Class Guest
Emilio Tojín Lopez From Guatemala
2007.05.02
Emilio is full-blooded Maya from Guatemala. His first language is K'iche' and his second language is Spanish. He does not speak English. Class instructor James Loucky translating.
In the early 1980's, the military campaign against the Maya in Guatemala.
Scorched Earth Policy. Killed men, women, children.
Emilio's people were fearful because they had heard what was happening in other Maya communities. They started a self-defense program that included having eyes and ears to let the community know when the army approached. When the military came, they fled into the mountains. The army arrived, was angry that the community was empty, and burned down all of the buildings.
Army patrols were sent into the rain forests to hunt people down. They found one group from his community and killed everyone. When they found survivor children, they killed them also, using sticks to conserve bullets.
Emilio has no idea of where the hatred of the Maya came from. Even pregnant women had their abdomens ripped open.
The people were in the mountains, desperate and frightened.
Foot patrols & helicopters searched for them. It was a time of terror. The military came came by land and air, and the people had nowhere to go.
Children were hungry and crying.
In the mountains, they stayed a long time. People got sick, there was no medicine.
In the 1982 coup, the government was going after communists & subversives. The fleeing people had radios that they listened to. They heard government propaganda that said the government was evangelical and would not hurt them. Hearing that, some went back, where the army encircled and imprisoned them.
Young men were pressed in to military service, sent to hunt down members of their own communities.
One group hidden in the mountains, soldiers found them. Emilio was in that group.
Some tried to run, as did Emilio. He grabbed his 3-year-old daughter and ran. The soldiers shouted at him to stop, and fired on him, but missed. The rest of his family was captured. Emilio told his daughter that the girl's mother and sisters were dead.
They were sad and desperate, and kept walking. No food, no clothes, soaking wet. Several days later they found others from their community and joined them. The soldiers kept looking for 6 months. So Emilio and his daughter went to México. They were in México for the next 12 years.
The experience in México
In México, they were received with compassion and food. The Méxican government helped, with support from the U.N. -- like medicine, because there was so much sickness after the mountains.
The U.N. High Commission for Refugees also provided food.
However, the Méxican government also kept a tight reign on them. They couldn't leave. They had to organize themselves. They worked through workshops, learned about human rights, and their rights.
<Instructor James Loucky shows class a photo in a book of Emilio and his daughter in the Tecún Refugee camp.>
Emilio started learning Spanish at age 10. Many, however, in his community do not speak Spanish still. Emilio was lucky.
Returning to Guatemala
It was very difficult to return.
México wasn't easy, but they were secure there. Long negotiations were engaged with the Guatemalan government to ensure safety after return.
The refugees petitioned for return of abandoned land. All who fled were in the same situation. The army had occupied and destroyed the villages.
<Comment: The Catholic Church reports that at least 1 million people were displaced. >
The military strategy was to bring in new, compliant people from other areas to populate the lands that had been abandoned. The refugees demanded the right to re-occupy those abandoned lands.
The people who stayed behind cooperated with the military. Defense patrols were organized in the communities.
The refugees won the right to return, the new inhabitants had to be moved out, a long process of getting back land.
It was very hard, the new people who had been given land had a mindset of cooperation with the military.
Those in México had to learn to think critically, and challenge things. Those still in Guatemala didn't like that. They accused the returnees of having a communist & subversive mentality.
In the remaining communities, military structure had been put in place. People from the community were put in positions of working for the military -- those were the ones who called us subversive. Not just men. Women too. Accusing each other of being guerrillas.
That went on for 2-3 years.
They had workshops, talked with each other, re-building relationships.
Now we get along well, they try to solve our problems communally.
Emilio & his daughter were reunited with their family. The family members had been tortured, but not killed.
The returning refugee conflict also happened on the family level. His daughter who went to school in México would question, but the ones left behind went to military-dominated schools. Even Emilio's oldest daughter said he must have been with the guerrillas.
<Question: Did the community know why they were persecuted?>
No, not really.
<Question: Were there Maya soldiers?>
Yes, there was forced recruitment. Unfortunately, soldiers were forced to do things -- including killing people -- and if the soldiers didn't comply, they were killed themselves.
Also, there was a part of the army, a special branch, the harshest part, the Cabillas(?) that the Maya were conscripted into. This military organization was greatly feared, because they dehumanized the conscripts, turned them into killing machines who would even drink the spilled blood of their victims.
It was 16 and 17 year olds who were conscripted.
<Question: What is the current situation?>
The political & economic system in Guatemala is bad, what people produce has a very low value. Huge prices for goods, little income.
<Question: How are the lands and soil now?>
Not like it used to be. Possibly from the bombs.
Now there is a climate change.
Not as much rain, more insects.
With lower crop fertility, more chemicals are being used in agriculture, with the health and environmental problems this causes.
<Question: Why did the attacks stop?>
The guerrilla movement wanted control of territory & people, as did the army.
Peace accords were signed in 1996 (the war started in 1966, 30 years).
Guerrillas agreed to give up arms, and the army agreed to reduce presence. These have happened somewhat.
<Question: Wasn't there a school built in Santa Maria teaching human rights?>
Teachers in the village were from other places, not from the community, so they were not dedicated.
Some returning refugee teachers are now enthusiastic about educating. But they don't have professional training, and the government doesn't recognize them as teachers because they don't have degrees. But they are dedicated, concerned, and gradually replacing the imported teachers.
Different concerned people around the world helped support the school.
Now, years later, people have gone on to get teaching certificates. And they have High School teachers also. Now some are even going on to get higher degrees in the U.S. and Spain.
Now it's ones returning to the community who teach. Now the project is to go beyond middle school, and diversify education in the community.
<Question: During your 12 years in México, were you able to communicate with your family & community in Guatemala?>
Yes, during that time, letters might take 2-3 months to get there.
<Comment: 90% of those massacred were Maya.>
<Question: What is it you want us to know? What do you want us to do?>
Know the real story. Find out the truth, ask questions.
The survivors want help & support, including bringing to justice those responsible. Please think about joining the in the communities and villages as well - holding a U.S. passport will protect you, and being there protects the villagers. (This is called "accompaniment")
##
Transcription by Hagrid Jacobs
Rough Transcription of In-Class Guest
Emilio Tojín Lopez From Guatemala
2007.05.02
Emilio is full-blooded Maya from Guatemala. His first language is K'iche' and his second language is Spanish. He does not speak English. Class instructor James Loucky translating.
In the early 1980's, the military campaign against the Maya in Guatemala.
Scorched Earth Policy. Killed men, women, children.
Emilio's people were fearful because they had heard what was happening in other Maya communities. They started a self-defense program that included having eyes and ears to let the community know when the army approached. When the military came, they fled into the mountains. The army arrived, was angry that the community was empty, and burned down all of the buildings.
Army patrols were sent into the rain forests to hunt people down. They found one group from his community and killed everyone. When they found survivor children, they killed them also, using sticks to conserve bullets.
Emilio has no idea of where the hatred of the Maya came from. Even pregnant women had their abdomens ripped open.
The people were in the mountains, desperate and frightened.
Foot patrols & helicopters searched for them. It was a time of terror. The military came came by land and air, and the people had nowhere to go.
Children were hungry and crying.
In the mountains, they stayed a long time. People got sick, there was no medicine.
In the 1982 coup, the government was going after communists & subversives. The fleeing people had radios that they listened to. They heard government propaganda that said the government was evangelical and would not hurt them. Hearing that, some went back, where the army encircled and imprisoned them.
Young men were pressed in to military service, sent to hunt down members of their own communities.
One group hidden in the mountains, soldiers found them. Emilio was in that group.
Some tried to run, as did Emilio. He grabbed his 3-year-old daughter and ran. The soldiers shouted at him to stop, and fired on him, but missed. The rest of his family was captured. Emilio told his daughter that the girl's mother and sisters were dead.
They were sad and desperate, and kept walking. No food, no clothes, soaking wet. Several days later they found others from their community and joined them. The soldiers kept looking for 6 months. So Emilio and his daughter went to México. They were in México for the next 12 years.
The experience in México
In México, they were received with compassion and food. The Méxican government helped, with support from the U.N. -- like medicine, because there was so much sickness after the mountains.
The U.N. High Commission for Refugees also provided food.
However, the Méxican government also kept a tight reign on them. They couldn't leave. They had to organize themselves. They worked through workshops, learned about human rights, and their rights.
<Instructor James Loucky shows class a photo in a book of Emilio and his daughter in the Tecún Refugee camp.>
Emilio started learning Spanish at age 10. Many, however, in his community do not speak Spanish still. Emilio was lucky.
Returning to Guatemala
It was very difficult to return.
México wasn't easy, but they were secure there. Long negotiations were engaged with the Guatemalan government to ensure safety after return.
The refugees petitioned for return of abandoned land. All who fled were in the same situation. The army had occupied and destroyed the villages.
<Comment: The Catholic Church reports that at least 1 million people were displaced. >
The military strategy was to bring in new, compliant people from other areas to populate the lands that had been abandoned. The refugees demanded the right to re-occupy those abandoned lands.
The people who stayed behind cooperated with the military. Defense patrols were organized in the communities.
The refugees won the right to return, the new inhabitants had to be moved out, a long process of getting back land.
It was very hard, the new people who had been given land had a mindset of cooperation with the military.
Those in México had to learn to think critically, and challenge things. Those still in Guatemala didn't like that. They accused the returnees of having a communist & subversive mentality.
In the remaining communities, military structure had been put in place. People from the community were put in positions of working for the military -- those were the ones who called us subversive. Not just men. Women too. Accusing each other of being guerrillas.
That went on for 2-3 years.
They had workshops, talked with each other, re-building relationships.
Now we get along well, they try to solve our problems communally.
Emilio & his daughter were reunited with their family. The family members had been tortured, but not killed.
The returning refugee conflict also happened on the family level. His daughter who went to school in México would question, but the ones left behind went to military-dominated schools. Even Emilio's oldest daughter said he must have been with the guerrillas.
<Question: Did the community know why they were persecuted?>
No, not really.
<Question: Were there Maya soldiers?>
Yes, there was forced recruitment. Unfortunately, soldiers were forced to do things -- including killing people -- and if the soldiers didn't comply, they were killed themselves.
Also, there was a part of the army, a special branch, the harshest part, the Cabillas(?) that the Maya were conscripted into. This military organization was greatly feared, because they dehumanized the conscripts, turned them into killing machines who would even drink the spilled blood of their victims.
It was 16 and 17 year olds who were conscripted.
<Question: What is the current situation?>
The political & economic system in Guatemala is bad, what people produce has a very low value. Huge prices for goods, little income.
<Question: How are the lands and soil now?>
Not like it used to be. Possibly from the bombs.
Now there is a climate change.
Not as much rain, more insects.
With lower crop fertility, more chemicals are being used in agriculture, with the health and environmental problems this causes.
<Question: Why did the attacks stop?>
The guerrilla movement wanted control of territory & people, as did the army.
Peace accords were signed in 1996 (the war started in 1966, 30 years).
Guerrillas agreed to give up arms, and the army agreed to reduce presence. These have happened somewhat.
<Question: Wasn't there a school built in Santa Maria teaching human rights?>
Teachers in the village were from other places, not from the community, so they were not dedicated.
Some returning refugee teachers are now enthusiastic about educating. But they don't have professional training, and the government doesn't recognize them as teachers because they don't have degrees. But they are dedicated, concerned, and gradually replacing the imported teachers.
Different concerned people around the world helped support the school.
Now, years later, people have gone on to get teaching certificates. And they have High School teachers also. Now some are even going on to get higher degrees in the U.S. and Spain.
Now it's ones returning to the community who teach. Now the project is to go beyond middle school, and diversify education in the community.
<Question: During your 12 years in México, were you able to communicate with your family & community in Guatemala?>
Yes, during that time, letters might take 2-3 months to get there.
<Comment: 90% of those massacred were Maya.>
<Question: What is it you want us to know? What do you want us to do?>
Know the real story. Find out the truth, ask questions.
The survivors want help & support, including bringing to justice those responsible. Please think about joining the in the communities and villages as well - holding a U.S. passport will protect you, and being there protects the villagers. (This is called "accompaniment")
##
Transcription by Hagrid Jacobs