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When Paganism Ends...
My deep philosophical question for the season:
Is it possible to be an Atheist (or Agnostic), and be a Pagan at the same time?
I don't have an answer, I'm just mulling it over in my mind. I used to think "yes," and identified as such, but since then I've had Pagan friends I trust and respect tell me I can't be both at the same time.
Sorting out belief...
-Hagrid
Is it possible to be an Atheist (or Agnostic), and be a Pagan at the same time?
I don't have an answer, I'm just mulling it over in my mind. I used to think "yes," and identified as such, but since then I've had Pagan friends I trust and respect tell me I can't be both at the same time.
Sorting out belief...
-Hagrid
Extra credit: Consider the song by Yellow called Domingo
We are God? Reincarnation?
The lyrics are kind of opaque.
Re: Extra credit: Consider the song by Yellow called Domingo
Re: Extra credit: Consider the song by Yellow called Domingo
It's still pretty opaque.
What, exactly is the song advocating? Rationalism? Reincarnation? Satanism? They lyric sheet you sent me the link to, interestingly enough, excludes the French lyrics which appear in the song:
This tarnslates roughly to:
What is that all about? Is the singer saying that God and His Son don't exist? Or that they do exist and the singer hates them? Or that the creation of these Gods were somehow "Satanic" (diabolical)?
And who the heck is Domingo de Santa Clara, anyway? Probably not a real person - Google finds no one by that name. Nor does Wikipedia. Is he a metaphor for something or someone?
The Spanish construction of the name suggests Domingo is from Santa Clara - Wikipedia says there are 14 signifcant places called Santa Clara on the planet. The best-known is Santa Clara, California, which is the heart of Silicon Valley, and the epicentre of the Computer Revolution. Is that where Domingo is from? His name, in Spanish, means "Sunday." How is that significant?
Like I said, opaque.
Re: Extra credit: Consider the song by Yellow called Domingo
We are here
In this holy cave today
To celebrate
The reincarnation
Of domingo de santa clara
The man who convinced us
That there is no lord
For his name is buddha, allah, shiva, jahve [yahweh? ]
Outside our bodies
We are god
’cause only we can create the idea
Of his existence in our holy brains
This is the core, especially in the context of the original discussion about whether or not you can be an atheist/agnostic and yet pagan. In the song, the "preacher" tells us that we may be both atheist (there *is no god*) and yet have a spiritual life because we are the only ones capable of creating the idea of god. Alternatively, we *are* god. Those ideas show up in a number of pagan belief systems. In fiction, the idea circulates in a lot of Neal Gaiman's works where the gods and men have a symbiotic relationship - we created the gods and yet they depend on us. The ability for mortals to transcend mortality and become a god is also present in a number of earlier belief systems. These days, many pagans tend to regard death as a return to a state closer to god/goddess. To whit, a popular pagan song:
"We all come from the goddess
and to her we shall return
like a drop of rain."
I hate the idea of God and His son.
It's one of the most diabolical ideas
In the whole history of mankind
The fact that this was in French throws me a bit of dissonance since Domingo of Santa Clara sounds very much like a Spanish/Mexican name. I suspect the verse was included in French since it matched something that seems to show up in a lot of European techno, especially at that time - the narrative will shift languages.
In the context of the song, I've chosen to interpret it as Domingo, who believes that we are all god (and yet there is no external god) hates the ideas of the catholic church where not only is god external, but the only means to salvation.
Domingo you show me just nothing
Like no one before
Domingo of santa clara
You made us believe
That you are no phantom
When without
"You show me just nothing like no one before" - The beliefs advocated wash away the need to believe not only in the god without but also that there *is* no god. The "nothing" that is being shown is that there is no god. The "reincarnation" of Domingo seems to be that since we *are* god that god survives as long as we survive, yet "you are no phantom when without" there is no external god.
Billions of times
’til the end of the universe
Here with a smile on his face
As the rest of our species watches
The catastrophe
god ends when we do.
I don't think Domingo is a real person.
In any case, I treat the song as a exultation of atheism with spirituality. I don't necessarily expect you to get the same out of it, but the lyrics are confusing enough to at least let you think about it. :-)