Does Israel have the right to exist?

[kevyn]

Does Israel have the right to exist?

Yes.

Is Israel a good idea?

Probably not.

I do not deny Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, but I'm not convinced a Jewish state is a good idea in the first place.

I think that the idea of ANY state, based on religion, is a bad idea, and ultimately is going to work against the cause of peace. In a theocracy -- which Israel clearly is -- anyone not "of the faith" will end up being marginalized.

That's what's happening to the native Arabs of Israel right now, under Israeli colonialism.

I am of the minority position that peace is not possible in the Middle East without a one-state solution.

That's right, I said one state: secular, neither Jewish nor Muslim. Two official languages (Hebrew and Arabic). No Star of David on the flag. Dunno what to call the state, but Israel-Palestine works for now.

Israel-Palestine needs to be a shared homeland, with Jerusalem as the shared focus of three major world religions: Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Where people of all three faiths could find sanctuary from persecution.

Israel could have peace, could lead the way for the world in peaceful relations... if it simply gave up the idea that Israel is the Jewish homeland alone. Because it's clearly not.

Sharing is a basic human way of avoiding conflict.

Why can't Israel share?

Do my Jewish friends find this idea offensive? What about my Muslim and Christian friends?

Comments

[aadroma.livejournal.com]

I'm admittedly torn.

Part of the "Valley Of Peace" plan IS essentially a one-state plan where Israel, Gaza and the West Bank operate as an economic single unit, growing stronger through cooperation. I think it's a solid plan but it needs to be followed by all parties involved. And I'm for this.

... but at the cost of a dissolution of Israel? I admit, I'm somewhat uncomfortable with that, and I'm not sure why. After all, it currently shares Jerusalem with the West Bank. And it's not like the majority of people are essentially secular (even if they may identify with a particular religion).

[bluebear2.livejournal.com]

I'm told that the original guy who proposed the idea of a Jewish state , Theodor Herzl, was suggesting it be somewhere in Eastern or Central Europe.

[aadroma.livejournal.com]

I've heard similar -- one suggestion was even in Africa. The basic idea was just to have a homeland, not specifically where the old Israel was.

[djmadadam.livejournal.com]

I thought New Jersey was the Jewish state. Or maybe that's just Short Hills.

[kevynjacobs.livejournal.com]

> ... but at the cost of a dissolution of Israel? I admit, I'm somewhat uncomfortable with that, and I'm not sure why.

I understand.

To clarify, what I am thinking is along the lines of Switzerland. Multi-ethnic, neutral, and prosperous, at the intersection of some of Europe's biggest cultural rivals.

What do all the players have in common? They're all Semites.

That's something to build on.

[allanh.livejournal.com]

I was raised Jewish, and STILL it's my opinion that the Israelis are being Total Assholes over land issues ... and the Palestinians (specifically HAMAS) aren't behaving much better.

If HAMAS would ease off the "All Jews Must Be Killed" goal, AND if Israel would give back part or all of the fucking Gaza Strip and leave it to the Palestinians as a separate and independent state, I think peace could be achieved.

Unfortunately, this is one of those classic Star Trek situations where two sides have been fighting over something so long, and escalated it so heavily, that they've BOTH lost track of the original goals.

Rather than being a reaction to the Holocaust (a frequent myth), Israel was created as a result of the League of Nations Mandate of 1922, which granted a mandate to Great Britain to create a "National Home" for the Jews in Palestine. This right was based on "the right to self determination, a right shared by all peoples."

Hence, I believe establishing separate states and leaving each other the fuck alone is an appropriate solution.

A reasonably succinct history providing the original political context for the establishment of Israel can be found on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel

I'm swearing more than usual because I've totally lost patience with both sides.