More Israeli misbehaviour:

A boat carrying international peace activists, including former Green Party presidential candidate Cynthia McKinney, and medical supplies to the embattled Gaza Strip sailed back into a Lebanese port on Tuesday after being turned back and damaged by the Israeli navy, organizers of the trip said. (Read more)

This is not new behaviour on the part of the Israelis. They've been blockading Gaza for some time, not allowing food relief, medical supplies, or fuel in to the territory. They say it's to keep out weapons, but the net effect is a collective punishment inflicted on the people of Gaza, which meets the definition of a war crime. They've also been turning away U.N. human rights envoys and journalists, in an attempt to keep the world unaware of what's actually going on. The blockade is why Israel is just as responsible for the violence, not just Hamas (The Bush White House blames Hamas, but not Israel, for the violence).

Desperate people turn to desperate measures. Israel is trying to blame Gaza's rockets (which killed one person) for the escalation of violence. But it is Israel's behaviour that is absolutely appalling, and it's really starting to piss me off. The Israelis are NOT the good guys here (and neither is Hamas). Sadly, the abused stepchildren of Adolph Hitler have grown up to become abusers themselves. Violence perpetuates.

This coming Saturday, my friend Alex ([livejournal.com profile] seespikerun) is organizing a protest here in Bellingham at the U.S. Federal Buiding ( http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=56833142386 ). I plan on being there. The weapons being used to kill Gazans are being supplied by the U.S. government -- our tax dollars -- and this must stop. I plan on writing my congresscritters this week to demand that we stop funding Israeli terrorist organizations like the IDF.

And, on a side note, I must applaud Cynthia McKinney for her attempts to help the Gazan victims of Israeli aggression. I voted for her in this past Presidential election instead of Obama, because I knew she walked the walk, not just talked the talk.

From: [identity profile] aadroma.livejournal.com


While I am all about Israel's right to protect herself -- yeah, God, overkill much? It's VERY disheartening to see Israel go to this extreme, and to drag civilians into it as well. To say nothing of rupturing the relations he's had with Palestinian PM Abbas!

From: [identity profile] kevynjacobs.livejournal.com


> Israel's right to protect herself

This isn't about Israel defending itself... this is RETIRBUTION. Collective punishment. And War Crimes.

Gaza has become an equivalent to the Warsaw Ghetto over the past few months, and I don't use that analogy lightly.

From: [identity profile] aadroma.livejournal.com


This isn't about Israel defending itself

Erm, hance the rest of the response. ^^;;;

A 48 hour cease-fire's been put on the table ... may that actually happen.

From: [identity profile] fzks-cub.livejournal.com


uuughhh... return to isolationism please! at least until these fucktards learn to behave...

and too bad obama's already said several times before that israel is our "greatest ally"... bullshit, fuck israel if they're gonna do this shit.

From: [identity profile] fzks-cub.livejournal.com


clarification: "fucktards" above includes hamas and other militant palestinians

From: [identity profile] gruimed.livejournal.com


>not allowing food relief, medical

In one word - bullshit. Read the news carefully, not only the parts that you want to see.

From: [identity profile] kevynjacobs.livejournal.com

Excuse me, who are you?


I do read the news carefully. Probably much more carefully than most Americans -- because I know I can't trust the U.S. media.

And until recently, Israel has been engaging in a full-out blockade against the people of Gaza, including blocking food and medical supplies.

The Israeli government is committing war crimes against Gaza, and must be stopped.

From: [identity profile] gruimed.livejournal.com

Re: Excuse me, who are you?


Maybe you read the news too careful. Otherwise I don't know how you missed the fact that even now when we are officially at war with Gaza we let food and medical supplies in. Do you have an example of ANY country doing such thing ?

From: [identity profile] kevynjacobs.livejournal.com

Re: Excuse me, who are you?


I'm very well aware that SOME supplies were let in this morning, I saw it on the news. This does not change the fact that most medical relief has been turned away, both recently, and over the past few months.

This is a very cynical move on the part of the Israeli government. The supplies were only let in after world opinion turned against Israel. A token gesture does not make forgivable or undo the damage of the blockade.

From: [identity profile] gruimed.livejournal.com

Re: Excuse me, who are you?


So you did know that some supplies were let in, but still wrote that there were none.

Now to the second, and most important question - when you criticize Israel, I presume that you compare it to some real, non-imaginary "better" country. Tell me please, what other country in the world supplies food and fucking electricity to the country that they are officially at war with !?

From: [identity profile] kevynjacobs.livejournal.com


My initial post was about medical supplies that were turned away TODAY!

You clearly are biased in favour of Israeli actions, which is your prerogative, and I presume you are unwilling or unable to look at the issue from a larger perspective. As such, I fail to see how this exchange serves any purpose, other than to start an argument.

I stand by my statement: the Israeli blockade of Gaza is a war crime.

From: [identity profile] kevynjacobs.livejournal.com


The thing about his assertion that bothers me can be summed up thusly:
We've kicked you out of your home, imprisoned you in a ghetto, and shot you in the head. Oh, wait, here's some bandages! See, we're not evil!

Israeli's just don't seem to get it, why everyone is so angry at them.

From: [identity profile] gruimed.livejournal.com


Nobody put them in a ghetto. Palestinians were given (by UN) their own country in 1948. They were not happy. They started a war. They lost. That's it.

If you think that the fact they lost in a war gives them a right to fire rockets at us you surely would not object to some Japanese guy destroying your house and killing you, wouldn't you ?

From: [identity profile] kevynjacobs.livejournal.com


> Nobody put them in a ghetto.

To use your phrase: Bullshit.

Israel stole the land. Now there is war. Simple as that.

From: [identity profile] gruimed.livejournal.com


Did you miss the word UN in my previous sentence ?

In the aftermath of the WWII the world map changed quite significantly as you probably learned in the high school. But this is not important. This whole "historical right to that land" argument is meaningless.

Are you 100% sure that Americans have historical right to the land your house is built on ? I doubt so.


From: [identity profile] kevynjacobs.livejournal.com


Oh no, I very much saw it. I also know the history: Most of Palestine was taken by conquest in 1948 by Zionist forces, with the blessing of the U.N.

In 1967, Israel also conquered Gaza and the West Bank. They have no country, because they are occupied by a hostile force: Israel.

Israel is the conqueror. Israel is the oppressor. The Palestinians are the victims.


> Are you 100% sure that Americans have historical right to the land your house is built on ? I doubt so.

No, we don't. What was done to the Native Americans was wrong, just as what was done to the Palestinians was wrong. But the colonial conquering of North America is an irrelevant side detail.

From: [identity profile] gruimed.livejournal.com


>No, we don't.
In that case, when US cease to exist you will probably have the right to criticise Israel.

From: [identity profile] teledildonix.livejournal.com

Re: Excuse me, who are you?


gruimed wrote "Tell me please, what other country in the world supplies food and fucking electricity to the country that they are officially at war with !? [sic]"

Perhaps if you take a quick look at a list of countries engaging in an Apartheid~style social system, you can easily find the answers to your question.

Also, you can look at the example of Venezuela (and Citgo) for an answer to your question. Venezuela has been supplying oil to Americans in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic states for years, despite incidents in which we break diplomatic relations and recall ambassadors during the (presumably CIA-funded) attempt to overthrow Venezuela's democratically elected government.

But please, don't cloud the issue with facts. :/

From: [identity profile] gruimed.livejournal.com

Re: Excuse me, who are you?


You mean Venezuela supplies oil to US out of humanitarian cause without any profit !? You believe recalling ambassadors is the same as a full scale war !? I'm beginning to suspect that Venezuela has been supplying to you some other of their world renown products, probably for humanitarian cause as well.

From: [identity profile] teledildonix.livejournal.com

Re: Excuse me, who are you?


Ummm.... you can debate the 'humanitarian cause', but i'm pretty sure there are millions of gallons of Citgo oil which were distributed without any profit, specifically to aid poor people in America despite the American propaganda and attacks on Venezuela's sovereignty.

Meanwhile, you have conveniently skipped over the first part of my answer, which was probably the far more accurate reply to your question. It consists of the mention of countries which engage in Apartheid behavior, comparable to the behavior of Israel.

From: [identity profile] kevynjacobs.livejournal.com


In my experience, this is a typical tactic of Israeli apologists... they try and lawyer the language of their rationales, while neatly sidestepping the core of the accusations. Don't let them get you bogged down in irrelevant details.

From: [identity profile] gruimed.livejournal.com

Re: Excuse me, who are you?


>you can debate the 'humanitarian cause'
You (and the article you gave a link to) said it yourself! That's the whole point. Profit is not necessarily measured in dollars. At the same time, there is no profit whatsoever to Israel from supplying water and electricity to Gaza. Yet we continue to do this, out of purely humanitarian cause, even though they keep firing rockets at us. And you still did not gave me a single example of any other country doing so. And while we are on the subject, maybe you can provide me an example of another country that PHONES citizens on the other side before bombing ammunition warehouses in order to ensure that no civilians are harmed !?

In fact, each and every Israeli solder and commander should be given Nobel peace prize for the way we conduct warfare and risk our own lives in order not to harm civilians on the other side.

As for the "first part" - you can compare anything to anyone, but it does not make it true. I can compare Britney Spears to Mark Knopfler, but it won't make her singing sound better.

From: [identity profile] kevynjacobs.livejournal.com

Re: Excuse me, who are you?


> In fact, each and every Israeli solder and commander should be given Nobel peace prize for the way we conduct warfare and risk our own lives in order not to harm civilians on the other side.

Making a patently untrue statement like that is what I call Chutzpah.

From: [identity profile] gruimed.livejournal.com

Re: Excuse me, who are you?


Yet, my friend, it is true. We do call them before the strike. This is so bizarrely noble that people like you can't believe it when they see it on the news and in fact many Israelis are not happy with this policy, however we keep doing it.

From: [identity profile] kevynjacobs.livejournal.com


> Yet, my friend, it is true.

I am not your friend.

> you can't believe it when they see it on the news

The mainstream U.S. news is biased. I rarely believe it as unbiased truth. I read the European, Israeli, and Middle Eastern press in order to get all viewpoints.
.

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